Jeremy: 0:00
Hi. My name is Jeremy Wagstaff. You're listening to Living in a Pandemic.
Salahuddin: 0:09
Hi, Jeremy. How are you? Very nice to hear from you.
Jeremy: 0:12
It's March the 28th 2020. There are 591,171 confirmed cases of COVID-19, 91 of them in Afghanistan. Around the world, 30,451 people have died.
Jeremy: 0:29
I first visited Afghanistan in 1996 shortly after the Taliban had taken Kabul to everyone's surprise. I was in my first stint with Reuters then at a time when they would just point reporters in the direction of a war and tell us to find our way there and report back. (At) Kabul airport, the Reuters stringer, Salahuddin, was there to meet me. And by the time we got to the guesthouse, we were both rolling around on the back seat of the taxi with laughter. Given the dire straits of the country, it probably wasn't the best look. But his dark humor and my silliness forged a tight bond between us.
Jeremy: 1:04
But there's never a fairy tale ending for Afghanistan. And Salahuddin has stayed on when he could so easily have left continuing to report on the country. We had trouble finding a way to talk to each other. So this interview is stitched together from various messages we left for one another. His humor is still there in the background, but COVID-19 threatens to only worsen his country's plight.
Jeremy: 1:30
Yeah, I was wondering, first off, you know what's happened in the intervening years? The kind of last time we saw each other was in 2010, right, for the election there? So I'm assuming you're still in Kabul. I saw from your Facebook picture that you've got kids. So a kid and family?
Salahuddin: 1:49
Yeah, the the last time we met back in 2009 or 10, you're here in Kabul covering or overseeing the election process here? And it was one of the sort of era that we had a relative calmness, at least in major cities. Since then, things have gone really bad in many parts of the country, especially in major cities, which were regarded as secure until a few years ago. The Taliban have broadened their activities, stepped up their attacks, and we have got new militant groups emerging in various parts of the country.
Salahuddin: 2:32
Well, I think, for obvious reasons, people have realized that corona is another calamity or disaster that is be falling on Afghanistan. Coronavirus has become like a monster and an invisible enemy for some people in Afghanistan. Those who are literate, those are are aware of what's going on outside Afghanistan, they know that it's a very big disaster, very major crisis for Afghanistan, when big powers, advanced nations like China, the United States, Italy, France, and Spain have not been able to curb the spread of the virus, find medicine and vaccine for it. A poor and impoverished country like Afghanistan, which is locked in the middle of power struggle and then facing Taliban and Daesh, will find it really, really tough to prevent the spread of this virus.
Salahuddin: 3:28
Official government estimates indicate that at least three people have passed away because of the virus and at least 120 people are contaminated. But I think it will take really much time for people in the government to know and realize the extent of this crisis because the government has got little resources, little clinics, and very few diagnostic centers that can basically prove how many people are contaminated. Some people ignore the crisis. Others who are following the news by television and social media and radio know that this is a big threat for Afghanistan.
Jeremy: 4:10
What's it mean for you? Have you been told that you kind of have to work from home, yet?
Salahuddin: 4:14
In some parts of the city that I went to, it was business as usual. People were hugging. People are shaking hands. Shops were open. It was huge crowd. But some other parts, you could see that there was less traffic movement, shops were closed, police were sort of shutting down shops who were not obeying the government orders like those shops who are necessarily shouldn't have been opened like tailor shops, mechanics. They were open but the government were forcing them to close down. So unless I think people see by their own eyes in Afghanistan, I think those who ignore it will keep on ignoring this.
Jeremy: 4:58
What kind of measures you take with your family? How have you explained to your kids about this and what they should do?
Salahuddin: 5:05
It's still tough for some people, including me. I've got four kids. It's my wife, myself, and four kids that are in the family. Two of them are boys, two of them are girls. My mother and sisters are living outside Afghanistan. They're also in quarantine in Birmingham in England. I have to confine myself most of the time at home. But sometimes when I need to buy something, urgent stuff I have to venture out. But sometimes in my age and then given our profession, you're a bit adventurous, can't go out, but for a very brief period. As far as work is concerned, yes, I have been advised to basically operate and work from home.
Salahuddin: 5:46
There are positive and negative things who operate from home. You cannot concentrate. That's one bad aspect. Another negative aspect of this, a professional in Kabul is because if you don't have electricity at home and if you've got weak Internet, you cannot work properly. It's really tough, but it will go on for another three weeks, officially, but unofficially, we do not know how long more people will have to confine themselves at home and what the government can do in terms of dealing with the crisis. There are fatalities if people need to be quarantined in schools and hospitals. The government has got really meager resources. I've explained it to best of my ability to my kids, close neighbors, and relatives who also have been pursuing the events through televisions and radios. They also know we have to take this matter very seriously.
Salahuddin: 6:48
But sometimes I think in a country in a city like Kabul when things run out of food, medicine, all this, we have to go out. I mean, it's okay for me and for some people who can afford to, I think stock stuff at home. But there are hundreds of thousands of people who survive and live on outdoor works, on daily works. If they cannot work on the street as hawkers or road sellers, as porters, they don't have any means for survival, and the government has not offered them anything.
Salahuddin: 7:24
And, ah, it's, hygiene requirement that we have to follow seriously. And then sometimes when I come out from outside the home, my kids and I forget to wash my hands, my kids and for me and pinpoint that "Dad, that's the detergent, that's the soap, you have to wash, sorry. Go to the washroom and wash your hands because you forgot it, and then you don't want to spread the virus. We don't want you to get contaminated. It's good for us." So that gives me a sort of sense of happiness that they are tuned up. They know what to do, and if I forget it myself, they inform me about this.
Salahuddin: 8:03
But it's really tough for many people in Kabul. Kabul is a city with six million people, the pollution is really bad and it's peak season with summer and then autumn and winter. Spring, we had days of rain, it has basically cleared off the clouds. And pollution and smoke and dust to some extent. But the coming weeks will be hard for people if we don't have rain and then the lockdown inside the sea and then, it will be really, really tough, period. They've got forbid this disease or virus stays around. It becomes an epidemic, epidemic in Afghanistan, in Kabul in particular.
Jeremy: 8:46
I'm just trying this one, just while you're talking to see whether this is easier and whether they cut you off after a minute, as it does with Facebook Messenger, it's, It's a shame that you know, you're just telling me all this interesting stuff and then Facebook stops you and makes you start all over again. Um, this is all really interesting stuff. I really appreciate it. I'd love to hear a bit more about how your kids coping and, um you know what do you think might be ahead for them? It's so many other things to worry about, I'm sure. But this sort of coming on top of all that must be. it must feel very strange isn't it? And a huge weight for you I guess, as the father of four?
Salahuddin: 9:30
I'm worried about people inside Afghanistan, outside of Afghanistan, my family, my kids. People have been deprived from going to school, from their routine work, livelihood has really, really huge burden for many people here like as it is in other parts of the world. But people here mostly taking the brunt of this looming crisis because we have meager resources, the old is decreasing its attention in Afghanistan. There is a war going on. And then there is deep political crisis within the establishment in Kabul. My kids haven't been able to go to school in the past one week and then they, we'll have to continue this way for another 3 weeks as an experiment. And if the virus spreads around, this will drag on for unknown period. So it's really, really tough time for many people in major cities in Afghanistan, and rural parts of Afghanistan. But city like Kabul will not be able, I think, to stand with this crisis. Given that there are less health facilities, the government does not have the mechanism and means and resource to deal with the any unpredictable situation. We have to sort of be optimistic and count on each other and then be hopeful and rely on God apart from taking precautions that we can, we can and we have caught at our disposal.
Jeremy: 11:07
Thanks for this, Salahuddin. It's really interesting. How do you see things developing in the next week or so? I know the high level, what Afghanistan is gonna do, what is it facing, but also what you, as a family, you're gonna face?
Salahuddin: 11:20
As far as I have followed the trend or the pattern of this virus in the first weeks, when there is an outbreak or spread of the cases, there are low positive instances or less people are being contaminated. But as the day goes, as the week passes, I think, you've got more people contaminated by this. So Afghanistan is going, I think, through a similar pattern. God forbid if, uh, things happen to be as worse as is on Italy, France, Spain, or the United States, and China, I think things will really be disastrous here in Afghanistan because of the reason that I mentioned earlier on: lack of health facilities, or meager government resources, and medical kits that are essential for checking this virus. The closure of the borders and halt of flights in the region and they realize that Afghanistan has on food imposed another commodities from the region and the world. I think things will really, really get worse for the people in Afghanistan if we have got an outbreak that's out of control. I've got some stocks of food and medicine for a few weeks, but beyond that like the rest of the population, not much. So we have to see how it goes and we have to take it. But not much we can do, I think, to prevent this the problem, to control this problem. We can pass purchase and food stuff tomorrow or for the day after tomorrow to keep us running for another several months. Beyond that, I think we cannot do much. We have to wait and see how it goes and then try to prevent the kids from going out, except for emergency situation. We have to take all our precautionary measures.
Jeremy: 13:21
Thanks, Salahuddin, I'll let you go. I realized I've kept you longer than I should have done. I hope I haven't worn out your battery either.
Salahuddin: 13:28
Hi Jeremy, my battery juice has come to an end. Very nice talking to you. Will be in touch whenever. Yeah, time take care of yourself and pray for us. We will pray for you. All the very best, man.
Jeremy: 13:41
That's Sayed Salahuddin talking from Afghanistan.
Jeremy: 13:45
If you'd like to donate to help the country, particularly at this time, visit AfghanAid.org.uk or search on globalgiving.org. As with all the friends I talked to on this podcast, I'll be going back to them in a week or so's time and see how they're getting on.
Jeremy: 14:01
If you have questions for them or for me or comments, you can reach me at Pandemic@cleftstick.com.
Jeremy: 14:08
You've been listening to Life in a Pandemic produced by myself, Jeremy Wagstaff, and Sari Sudarsono. If you're not already doing so, please subscribe, so you can catch future episodes and find old one. And if you like it enough, make your feelings known on iTunes or whatever service you're listening to this on. If you'd like to comment or participate, please drop us a line at Pandemic@cleftstick.com. My name is Jeremy Wagstaff. Goodbye for now, and stay well, wherever you are.